The Second Coming Q&A

In this episode Dan Jarms answers two questions you sent in about end times and the second coming of Christ.

1. What happens to believers when we die? Are we brought to heaven in an intermediate state of our souls without bodies or are we asleep and will rise to heaven when Christ returns. What happens to our old bodies? (1 Thessalonians 4:16)
2. In Matthew 24:14, when Jesus says the Kingdom will be preached to all nations and then the end will come, what does he mean by "all nations"? 

• Automated Transcription

• Dan Jarms 0:00
  Today on faith matters, we're going to answer questions that you sent in from our recent series on the second coming of Christ.
  
  Dan Jarms 0:13
  I'm Dan jarms
  
  Seth Weber 0:14
  and I'm Seth Weber,
  
  Dan Jarms 0:15
  and you're listening to faith matters, a podcast to help update you on matters of faith, Bible, church, as well as equip you in matters of the Christian faith.
  
  Seth Weber 0:33
  A couple of Sundays ago, we asked people to send in questions about the Lord's Second Coming and the End Times, yeah. And so we have a few questions that we're going to answer today. By the way, if you have additional questions, follow up questions, you can text those in at 5095, 55, 30773, so we're going to look at some of those questions now. Let's jump in Great. James Payton sent in this question, when we die, are we brought to heaven in an intermediate state of our souls, without bodies, or are we asleep and will rise to heaven when Christ returns? Why do we need our old bodies? And then he references first, Thessalonians, 416, where it says And the dead in Christ will rise first.
  
  Dan Jarms 1:22
  James, thanks for sending in a question. This is part of an area we call personal end times, personal eschatology. And what's going to happen to me? The first thing if Jesus doesn't return, is that we will die, and then we will need to meet the Lord, and what does happen to our bodies. Second, Corinthians five talks about this as clearly as in any place in Second Corinthians five eight, it says, Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So Paul's talking about the suffering that he's going through, and one day will die and will be away from this body that suffers and will be with the Lord. So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please Him, for we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. So he says we are away from the body and at home with the Lord. When we die, our bodies stay here, our souls are brought to God, brought brought to the face of Christ. Okay, and it looks like there is a judgment seat that happens when we go there, but that judgment seat could happen in the future, just at some point after we die, or in our souls go to be with Christ, then we'll eventually be evaluated for everything that we've done, either right away later, this passage doesn't really talk about that, okay, then later, however long it's going to be until Christ comes. That's where First Thessalonians, 413, through 18 come in. Or it says that at the coming of Christ, He will descend, and with that cry of command, that trumpet, the voice of the archangel, the dead in Christ will rise first. So as Jesus descends, the souls of all saints will come with him, and all of their bodies will be called up out of the earth, so out of the grave, so a bunch of zombies. Great question. So to go to what kind of body is called up out of the grave, we have to go to First Corinthians 15 to talk about the resurrection. And in First Corinthians 15, we have an order of the resurrection. But he tells us, what kind of resurrected body will we have? The question that was Paul's answering this imaginary questioner says, how are the dead raised with? What kind of body do they come and then he goes on to tell them, come on. I mean, it's it's not going to be the same body. So the question of is, why do we need our old bodies? James is asking, we don't need our old bodies. We need recreated new bodies. We need imperishable bodies. So what is sown is perishable, but what will be raised from the dead will be perfected glorified bodies. So we'll get our real bodies back in a glorified way. Another way to say that is you will be the Perfected Seth Weber, the glorified Seth Weber. And if we want to have some idea what that's like, then it's going to be something like Jesus had after He was resurrected. So he could appear, he could eat, he could be touched, he could talk, and people could hear him. He could be seen. I don't know if like Jesus, we can pass through walls. We. It out, you know, in locked doors. I don't know, you know what's up, but that would be cool if we could, yeah, I'd have to speculate beyond that. But we get glorified bodies to live with Him forever, because we were created immortal with immortal bodies. At least Adam and Eve were the human race was to be that way sin was brought in death now has overtaken all of us. We all die, we all decay, we all go into the ground. But the resurrection is the first reversal of the curse of the earth, and a first was applied to Jesus. It's been 2000 years. It will be applied to us too. So
  
  Seth Weber 5:41
  jumping back for a sec, yeah, that sort of in between state between when we die and when we get our resurrected bodies. Are we asleep, completely unaware of what's going on, or are we, you said we're with Christ. So what kind of form are we in? Like? What
  
  Dan Jarms 5:59
  are we like when Paul talks about this body dies, and to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. That presence does not look to be sleeping. It's to be present so awake, conscious. So theologians surmise that there is some kind of intermediate body. There is some kind of sensation. There is a way that our soul is perfected. Our senses are perfected. So our body isn't the only way we interact with God. Since we are body and spirit, our spirit interacts. So something about that is real, tangible, and one of the places to see that in Revelation Chapter Six is, I think it's the fifth seal is opened. And what that fifth seal shows is the martyrs during the Tribulation go before Jesus and they lament, how long O Lord, before our justice comes? How long before you're going to deal with this? And he says, You know what? Here's your white robes. Rest for now. So there is a calm a piece. The full number of those who need to be martyred has not been met because I have an appointed amount and number, and that's not here yet. So they, they, there is some kind of existence. They're dressed with something, but in that that something is often called the intermediate state, an intermediate body, so that it's recognizable, if you want examples of it in the in the Bible, first, Samuel, 28 Samuel has died. Saul has lost all his godly influences. He's surrounded by the Philistines, and he needs to know what's going to happen next. He he has put a ban on any witchcraft in Israel, so it's illegal to be a witch. A witch, a witch, would be a shaman today, a person who has supposedly has interconnectedness to the spiritual life. Those who have gone you know a person who could call back the dead. So this, this witch was able to call back the dead. We don't know if she really was or not. There's speculation about that. He goes to a Gentile area, finds a witch. The Witch calls Samuel back, and Samuel comes back and Saul can recognize him. So whatever Samuel looked like, Samuel was recognizable to the witch. She's actually really, really alarmed, he says. Saul says, Bring up Samuel for me. When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. Some people would say, like, that really worked normally. She's
  
  Seth Weber 8:44
  like, normally, I just pretend. But, yeah, yeah, but this one's real. And before
  
  Dan Jarms 8:47
  it was a demon, this is really Samuel. We don't know what, what that is exactly, but the woman said to Saul, you have deceived me. You are Saul. The king said to her, Do not be afraid. What do you see? And the woman said, I see, said to Saul, I see a God coming up out of the earth. So he's some great figure and and then Samuel rebukes him. Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up? He was in his rest. Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up? And rebukes him. So there's, there's something visible, some intermediate state that Samuel had Moses and Elijah have it on the Mount of Transfiguration. There's three different recordings of that in the Synoptic Gospels, so that Peter and John can recognize them. So there's some kind of intermediate state that people live in. And that's true for those who die and go to hell too. If we were to take that, that story that Jesus told about the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man, was in Hades, in hell, and he was thirsty, there's this great chasm. He looks and sees father Abraham, and he says, Send Lazarus here. Give me some water. I'm really thirsty, so some he has some kind of existence. That's a miserable existence. And then the resurrection, the first resurrection is the resurrection of the just or the living. And they get their bodies glorified, and they they are now in their glorified state before the Lord, and then coming back to reign with Christ. Then the second resurrection also corresponds to the second death, and that's Revelation chapter 20. There's a second death where bodies are resurrected of the of those who are in hell. So hell is a prison. It's not a final place of torment. They're resurrected out of hell. They're joined with their bodies. They're given a judgment for all the world to see Revelation at the end of Revelation chapter 20, then they're cast into the lake of fire, so they get a resurrected body that lives forever in in the lake of fire that's also mentioned in Daniel chapter 12, both of those the resurrection of the just and the unjust, they get bodies back, either to be blessed or to be judged.
  
  Seth Weber 11:07
  Okay, that's a pretty thorough answer. Hopefully that that helps James, yeah, or you can ask another question. That's fine, okay. We have another question from Janelle. She says, in Matthew 2414 when Jesus says the kingdom will be preached to all nations, and then the end will come, what does he mean by all nations? Some interpret that to mean all people groups, implying that there will be no unreached people groups left before the second coming of Christ. Or I've even heard once the last unreached people group is reached. We'll know that Jesus is coming back very soon. Could you please discuss what Jesus meaning of all nations would have meant to his audience when he said it this
  
  Dan Jarms 11:51
  all nations is every every kind of people group, every ethnicity, so typically, every tribe, nation, language, tongue, we know that they're all reached when we look in the future in Revelation, five people from every tribe, nation, language, tongue, are going to be around the throne worshiping God. So somehow the gospel has gone out. There have been converts. People are saved. So that's going to happen now, the gospel being preached to all nations, which is mentioned as she's talking about in Matthew 24 that's the Olivet Discourse, Jesus on the Mount of Olives, telling about the coming, about His Second Coming, and the things that are going to happen. The disciples are asking, what's the signs of the kingdom and of its coming? And Jesus says, well, first there's, and I'm just going to summarize, for the sake of time, first, there are all kinds of worldwide tribulations, natural disasters, wars, pestilence, plagues, those are just the birth pangs of trouble. Things are coming, getting ready. Then there is a more specific time that Jesus refers to where there's a there's a time of great tribulation that's coming over the whole world. So Jesus is talking about during this time when, when you see the abomination of desolation, when you see a leader come into the temple, take his place and act as if he is God, you know it's coming. You know that the judgments are coming. You know that the angels are coming to pour out their judgments to gather the elect all of this world by trouble. In the middle of that time, the gospel will be proclaimed. And if you jump into Revelation, 14 six says, Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead with an eternal Gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. And he said with a loud voice, Fear God and give Him glory because the hour of His judgment has come, and worship Him who is who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water. So it's a call to repentance and faith just before the final set of judgments. So you're
  
  Seth Weber 14:01
  saying that obviously we should try to reach every tribe and tongue nation, yes, but yeah, there may be some that we don't and this angel will reach, yeah, yeah. There may even be some that are saved at that end picture where it's every tribe and tongue nation. They're there because that angel told them
  
  Dan Jarms 14:16
  Jesus is talking about somebody from every nation. He's talking about that, but then he's talking about the nations hearing the gospel. So the gospel will be preached to all nations in this tribulation time. But that's not answering the missiologist question. So Janelle, our missionary, is saying, like, how does that have to do with my missions? Well, right now we are just commanded to go to all the nations and preach the gospel. So we're just going to fulfill what Jesus has commissioned us to do. So send out missionaries. Raise up support. Send out missionaries. Go as missionaries as God might call. Some of us stay as missionaries as God God might call us. So our we're in the missionary age to go into all the world. We're. One day, the missionary age will be over, and God will bring in the new heavens and the new earth, and all the saved will have been saved, and we live in paradise with him. So for now, we're called. Some have said that when we finish the job of world evangelization, then that's the indicator that Christ will come. Now the only difficulty you have with that is all the times that Jesus says the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not expect him. So that's what everybody has to be. Everybody has to get used to it's going to come at an hour you do not expect so as soon as you say these conditions must be met before the Son of man can come. You have, you have set up a problem for Jesus. So there are no conditions that currently need to be met before Jesus comes back, because he says, I'm going to come back like a thief. So when he comes back, he could initiate in a very quick time everything that needs to happen for the remainder of his purposes in the world. So that's, that's a different doctrine that's called the doctrine of imminency. He could return at any time, which we would share with people who don't have our End Times view. We would, we would share a doctrine of Christ's return at any time. Imminency, okay? What's very, very encouraging is read Revelation. Five men and women from every tribe, tongue, nation and language, are going to be around the throne worshiping God forever. The missionary enterprise will be completed. It's part of Jesus' plan. Very exciting, yeah, well,
  
  Seth Weber 16:38
  thanks for answering those questions, Dan. We do actually have one more question, but we're gonna actually record a separate episode for that one. It's from Todd Clark in regards to the millennial kingdom and the different views on when that occurs, the pre millennial, post millennial, millennial views, and sort of probably also address a little bit of where the rapture happens in that mix as well. So we'll probably record that soon and release that as its own episode. So thanks for sending in that question. Todd, yeah, it's
  
  Dan Jarms 17:10
  a big enough topic. We can simplify it, we can talk about it, but there are three major millennial positions, and then positions within those positions, right? That's why it takes a little bit of
  
  Seth Weber 17:22
  time. Well, thanks for joining us. All right. Thanks, Ed, you.

Dan Jarms

Dr. Dan Jarms is teaching pastor and team leader at Faith Bible Church in Spokane Washington, as well as associate dean at The Master's Seminary in Spokane. He has been married for over 30 years to Linda, and has three adult children. He earned his B.A. in English at the Master’s College, B.Ed. at Eastern Washington University, M.Div and D.Min in Expository Preaching at The Master’s Seminary. His other interests include NCAA basketball, woodworking, and art.

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Seth Weber

Seth is the Communications Director at Faith Bible Church and loves anything to do with design, video, audio and tech. He and his wife Kaitlyn have four children.

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