Do You Fear Death?

Dan Jarms and Jim Greenup address practical matters in preparing for death—the importance of planning for spouses, children, and grandchildren. They discuss the necessity of having a will, and the potential need for a trust, especially for significant assets or dependents, and they advocate for a balance between family and broader spiritual and charitable support. They also note the importance of life insurance for financial stability and the role of a power of attorney for decision-making during incapacitation. Throughout, they connect these practical steps to the Biblical principle of stewardship and giving. This episode is a good launching point for learning how to leave a legacy through estate planning.

• Automated Transcription

• Dan Jarms 0:00
  Today on faith matters, we're going to do part three of our series on Do you fear death? I have Jim greenup in with me.
  
  Dan Jarms 0:14
  I'm Dan Jarms, and you're listening to faith matters, a podcast to help update you on matters of faith, Bible Church as well as equip you in matters of the Christian faith.
  
  Dan Jarms 0:33
  Jim and I are going to talk about some real practical matters on preparing for death so that we don't have to fear death when it comes to our spouses, our children and our grandchildren. So we're going to talk about the practical preparations for dying, knowing that unless Jesus returns, we're all going to die. And Jim, thanks for coming. Well, it's a pleasure to be here Jim. Jim's worked with us a lot. I asked Jim to be part of this, because for, I don't know, three or four decades, he's been helping people plan and prepare their estates and their finances and encouraging charitable giving, all kinds of things to think about after that. So he's had some experience, and I've had a little bit less experience, but some experience in preparing for for death. So you might be here, you might be listening to this, going, Oh, this is about wills and planning. I'm 30. I don't care. I don't need that. Jim, what would you say to somebody who's 30, like, why they should just give us 15 minutes?
  
  Jim Greenup 1:39
  Well, I would encourage you, because the Lord tells you, think about planning. Yeah, he tells us the plan. Commit his plans to the Lord, and He promises to direct our steps. So if you want God to direct you at a younger age to an older age and to be wise, I would say, be worth listening
  
  Dan Jarms 2:01
  to great. And there's a whole bunch of other things we could say. You have no idea how long you're gonna live. You have no idea when the Lord's gonna call you home. You have a variety of things that you just can't predict. And so there are people that you need to love. And I would say planning is love. Planning is love for my spouse, love for my kids, love for my my grandkids. So we want to do that, and we want to think about it, so we have just kind of a grocery list of topics that I think is really important. But you know, you've done this a lot, why don't you start with some of the most important principles that you think of as we think about aging, dying and getting ready for that.
  
  Jim Greenup 2:41
  Well, over the years, I've had the privilege of talking to people about inheritance, but more importantly, stewardship. And all of us have a role to play in stewardship. And over the course of years, as God blesses you, cares for you. There's nothing that we have that hasn't been extended to us by His grace. So I would say a key component of understanding end of life planning is the stewardship of what's in my care. Yeah, that's a topic that goes on and on and on.
  
  Dan Jarms 3:21
  Yeah, we are to be ready in Luke 12, talking about being ready for the Master's return is the same chapter where Jesus tells this guy who's asking to get a bigger inheritance from his brother. He's telling him, you fool. You could die this very moment. You could die this very night. You don't know when God's going to call you home, and you don't know, and you want to be busy doing the Lord's work. That's stewardship. It's all the Lord's and at the moment that we die, we want to present to him a faithful life, and part of that is going to be faithful with some key decisions. Okay, let's, let's start talking about some of the practical matters, big picture, we're all going to die unless Jesus returns. What's the first set of things I need to be prepared for?
  
  Jim Greenup 4:08
  Depending on your age, your responsibilities when you're gone, how will they be handled? And if you're married, it would be your wife, your family, and how will they be taken care of? Or if, for some reason, certain things happen in your own life, where you become disabled or in you're unable to make prudent decisions, how should your affairs be arranged so proper decision making is in place, and part of that is can be incorporated into your will, which is an outline of your choices and choices that you want to make. If that event happens, disability or inability to make decisions, or death, yeah, and you're going to have to look to your background, to your sphere of influence, and ask a big question, who is it that understands me and understands the things I would want if something happened to me.
  
  Dan Jarms 5:26
  Great. And that's we would call that a personal representative or an executor of a will. So that's great. Everybody should have a will. Everybody should, everybody should have, if you have any stuff, you should have a will. Mostly, people are getting wills once they get married, because you're gonna have to figure out where things are gonna go.
  
  Jim Greenup 5:49
  Well, one point I would like to make, Dan is the state or the government has already established your will if you don't correct them and you may not like their directives. So the personal choices that you have is to legally put something in place that doesn't have to be elaborate, but it has to be
  
  Dan Jarms 6:10
  documented. Probably another thing to think about is that if you're married or you have people dependent on you financially, it's probably worth a monthly investment in something called life insurance, and that helps people bridge the gap between the spouse dying and another job, or provides enough so that the spouse doesn't need to work.
  
  Jim Greenup 6:36
  There's different ways of doing life insurance, but it has to do with your master planning and what you're comfortable with. There's different types of insurance, and definitely at different ages, your insurance plan will change, because sometimes at an early age you need more insurance because you have more dependents, you might have debt on your home or debt in other places, and so you want a coverage to offset some emergency event that happens to you. Yeah, because you are not a provider anymore.
  
  Dan Jarms 7:16
  When we were really young and didn't have any money, I just tried to make sure Linda would be okay for five years. That's a good plan. So like, Okay, Lord willing, after five years, she's gonna have to figure something out. But we just didn't have a lot of money to invest in it, but we had enough that we could get her a few years time to think and plan. So life insurance, good idea. Then a will, naming the executor who's going to handle the things, normally, it's the spouse. So we assume that both of us aren't going to die at the same time,
  
  Jim Greenup 7:49
  but you got to anticipate that could happen. Correct somebody that you both trust? Yes, and you could have separate ones. But primarily, if you're dealing with a will that executor covers that
  
  Dan Jarms 8:03
  event. Yeah. So you write, if you're married, you you write a will for both of you together, and you name a person who's going to be at the executor. At what point, Jim, do you need a trust or trustee?
  
  Jim Greenup 8:17
  A trust is, is a secondary agreement that extends beyond the will. Sometimes a will covers a certain point in time, but a trust goes beyond that. It may be a dependent child, and probably more than likely, for most people, it's a need within the family that you've identified that you want to provide for after you're gone. And I'm dealing with a situation right now where a guy my age is dealing with end of life planning. He's got a daughter that's 39 and she her her elements of physical operation and mental capacities are about 13, but she's healthy, and she needs somebody to oversee her. So how do you structure your estate? Well, it can be put into a trust, and a trustee is different than a personal representative. Can handle that when you're gone, generally an institution of some form that doesn't go away, and they have agreements in place that goes on through perpetuity, and that person, if it's a child or a dependent child of some form, is taken care
  
  Dan Jarms 9:35
  of. Yeah. So if you have dependents, the second one is if you have a significant set of resources, properties, finances. There's a certain amount of money that it's smart to have a trust for.
  
  Jim Greenup 9:47
  The thing is, is, let's say that you want to distribute a larger estate to children that are young, yes, and you don't want to do. Until they're 25 so somebody's gonna have to handle that. Somebody has to make that administrative component work. So
  
  Dan Jarms 10:10
  you need a will just to figure out what I should do when I die. Who's going to execute that? You might need a trust if you're concerned about how to point very specific assets and how to manage those assets. I
  
  Jim Greenup 10:23
  know some people that I've worked with where want to put money into a trust, where it supports missions for the next 20 years. Yeah, people that around them aren't comfortable with administrating that. Yeah, so it goes into a trust, and there's five ministries are identified, and they get an equal amount through the course of the next 20 years, whatever the wishes are of the person that creates the trust. So there's a lot of ways, and it's creative, but you have to come up with your own plan to how to implement the stewardship that you have before the Lord. Yeah.
  
  Dan Jarms 11:06
  So to summarize, everybody should have a will. Not everybody should have a trust, but some people might wish for specific things to be done with their resources that require a trust that's correct. There might be gages, depending on how your life is structured and what's going on. Well,
  
  Jim Greenup 11:25
  with a will, I would say, Dan, you create a will, you evaluate it every five years, every five years. And with that, you need to anticipate that as a man, you're going to die before your wife. Six out of eight men die before their wives. So you need to plan certain things in your own personal stewardship of how to make sure that your wife understands all these detail Yes, and sometimes guys are a little bit quiet or bashful, or they don't care,
  
  Dan Jarms 12:01
  or sometimes it's a division of labor where she's really good at something and he's really good at something, but he forgets that someday he's going to be gone and she's going to take it. So we have what we call my wife is in charge of the little money. That means she does way more of the work, because she's just taking care of the monthly bills, the monthly stuff, she's taking care all the monthly bills, and then Then I take care of the big money. Both of us have the same problem. If she dropped dead, I have to figure out. I have to figure out where all those little things are. If I die, she has to figure out where all the big things are. And we have this conversation about every six months. So where you should have
  
  Jim Greenup 12:42
  it written down? You should have some place where you have all your accounts listed. You should have some place where all your passwords are and all the things that are critical to the operation of the family financial
  
  Dan Jarms 12:55
  package. Yeah, our life insurance agent gave us a big book with all the things in it. It's super helpful, but we still need to review.
  
  Jim Greenup 13:03
  Well, you need to review because things change. Yep, there's so many variables that you need to do your own research. This is just kind of a nudge to get you to think that there's variables and options out there, and online research is pretty good. Yeah, the church is gonna get a book that American Bar Association called guide to wills and estates, and it's good to kind of come in and review. There's some checklists on it and stuff. And I've used it over and over and over and because you can't remember it all right. And every person's financial package is different, just like everybody's fingerprint is different, yeah, so you have to plan accordingly.
  
  Dan Jarms 13:43
  Great. Okay, let's, let's talk about one, one component of that. I need to pick somebody that's going to help represent me when I can't represent myself and I'm still alive
  
  Jim Greenup 14:00
  in legal terms. That's called Power of Attorney, okay? And it is important to in your will to instruct someone who is has the power that you're willing to give away the authority of your life if you become incapacitated. Yeah, and that term of that person goes as long as you're alive, but once you pass away or die, that authority goes away and it goes to your will. Sometimes it's the same person, yes, but sometimes it's not right. There's two different elements to that. One may be financial and one may be medical. Power of Attorney, they take over everything. If you become incapacitated through a car accident, through memory or physical challenges, they take over generally. If they're married, it's generally your spouse. Yeah, but beyond that, sometimes you need another person to follow that in in case there's a dual death at some time,
  
  Dan Jarms 15:08
  yep, yep. So I've had both for my mom. We split out at some point the financial to one of my siblings, who is more detail oriented and is in another city, and then I take care of the medical. So I'm medical power of attorney, and all I need to do is make sure mom gets the care that she needs, and that I help weigh in for her. Okay, so you're right, power of attorney is a is a good one. And then after you die, you we have, you have an executor of your
  
  Jim Greenup 15:42
  will. Sometimes it's called personal representative or executor, but that's who implements your wishes in the will
  
  Dan Jarms 15:47
  great and they you need to have your will very clearly laid out. Most of the lawsuits come in when power of attorney is initiated, and most of them come in at death. So siblings sue each other. People sue each other. It happens all the time. As soon as there's money involved, everybody thinks they have a right to it. So laying out what you want to have happen is really important. And having an executor who will carry out or or a power of attorney who will carry out your wishes is really important. Yeah,
  
  Jim Greenup 16:22
  a lot of us will try to do our will ourselves, yeah, but the merits and the benefit of having an attorney draft and record it and and notarize it, keep a copy of it is is pretty important. Yeah, what helps you and helps your professional advisor that comes to you is if you'd write things down, when you write things down, it processes in your mind differently. People tend to forget stuff, or they tend to remember the things to benefit themselves when money's involved. Yes, and I had a case that I worked on where they said, Dad said this. Dad said that they could buy the land at no less than this amount. They remembered that they could buy the land for this amount. And so I went to the trust document, and I said, What did it say? And the trust document said, do an appraisal and sell it for no less than but sell it for the appraised value. It cleaned up things very easily, but it didn't make some of the people very
  
  Dan Jarms 17:28
  happy. There's always somebody unhappy. That's why your will
  
  Jim Greenup 17:32
  needs to be clarified very specifically.
  
  Dan Jarms 17:36
  Different family members may have different vantage points or viewpoints about all of that. But if you get it all in writing, get it all in writing is really important. Whatever's in writing
  
  Jim Greenup 17:46
  that validates the first level of interpretation, yeah, if it's in writing, that's 90% of the facts. Okay,
  
  Dan Jarms 17:56
  so that's the big picture. Why don't you talk about thinking about eternal work with the resources that you're going to leave behind once you talk about end of life and giving out of your estate.
  
  Jim Greenup 18:15
  Well, being 77 I'm starting to think more intentionally with
  
  Dan Jarms 18:22
  I didn't think you're a deal for 72 Jim,
  
  Jim Greenup 18:25
  10 grandkids, and excited about all of them, but scripture has some guidelines for us. And
  
  Dan Jarms 18:35
  yeah, let me, let me read that we were talking about this just as we're preparing here, a good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. That's proverbs. 1322, yeah, Jim, you're a good man.
  
  Jim Greenup 18:46
  Well, you know, one of the things that you can leave is a good name, and if you've been blessed along the way, and you have a role as a steward of capital, I think it's wise to think about the Lord's work in all that he's had you involved with. And he also talks about future generations. So he talks about the importance of outreach, he talks about the importance of the next generation, and he also has given some responsibilities to people for special needs, things. So you look at your will, I think, and say, How do I deal with this capital reserve that I've been able to manage through my lifetime. How do I how should I use it? And I've got some, I don't think they're biases, but they've just been formed over a period of time. Historically in America, a lot of parents said if I have three kids, it goes 1/3 one through. 1/3 and not all three of those kids are equally responsible or equally balanced in their needs or equally needy. But they aren't the only thing that God outlines. Where have you been fed spiritually over the last 10, 515, 2030, years, there's a part of that that I think is worthy of putting in your will as to how to you extend support to the things that have been important to you, that have nurtured your soul, have enriched your heart. I think you need to weigh some of that that helps in that future generation component, because you're shaping through your gift to your church, or a gift that supports missions, or a combination of both, you're giving to future needs in future generations. And you know, of late, I've tried to weigh my heart away from just family. The Lord has extended financial resources to you, not to your family. So your family may be beneficiaries of some of it, but in my opinion, they shouldn't be the dominant portion. I just finished doing an estate about a year ago. It's not even done yet, but this gentleman had me as the trust, as the trustee, the trust officer for his trust. And he said that this 50% I want to go to my family, and he wanted this other 50% to go to 10 charities, people that he had supported throughout his years that had fed him spiritually over the years, one of them had to do with his local church, and they were the biggest benefit. One had to do with a school where his kids went to school. So I think it's worthy to think creatively and maybe talk with other people in your church or your growth group or whatever, and get some input, because you're the steward of that. And stewards make wise decisions. They don't make arbitrary decisions just because it's just family.
  
  Dan Jarms 22:38
  I think the moment Jesus returns or the moment I'm called home, I want to be faithful with the money that he's entrusted me to with me, and part of that's going to be eternal work, Jim, this has been really helpful. Thank you for taking time. If you need or have any questions, Jim will point you to the right people to talk to. We can't bring up here's our favorite lawyers. Call these people. We're not going to do that on this one, but Jim will have ideas for legal help, Trustee help, ideas about Planned Giving. Feel free to reach out to Jim anytime. Of course, you can email the church at info@fbchurch.org. Thank you, Jim.

Dan Jarms

Dr. Dan Jarms is lead pastor at Faith Bible Church in Spokane Washington, as well as associate dean at The Master's Seminary in Spokane. He has been married for over 30 years to Linda, and has three adult children. He earned his B.A. in English at the Master’s College, B.Ed. at Eastern Washington University, M.Div and D.Min in Expository Preaching at The Master’s Seminary. His other interests include NCAA basketball, woodworking, and art.

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